74 | Cameron Clarke, Sunderstorm

“You can integrate this plant into your day-to-day life in ways that you probably didn’t feel were possible. And part of that is because you now can get access to products that are reliable.”

— Cameron Clarke

Have you been eating THC gummies? You’re not alone, gummies are practically the new glass of wine now — a reliable way to find relaxation, without inhaling smoke you don’t want in your lungs.  For many people, Kanha gummies from

Sunderstorm have been the go-to brand over the last year.

In this episode we catch up with Sunderstorm co-founder Cameron Clarke about:

  • The challenges of developing a consistent cannabis product
  • How nanotechnology works, and how it increases bioavailability of cannabinoid medicine
  • Why Sunderstorm has never made a distinction between recreational and medicinal cannabis
  • What to expect as the cannabis industry enters an era of explosive growth

Transcript of podcast with Cameron Clarke, Sunderstorm

Kannaboom © 2021

Kannaboom 0:00

How do you build a national cannabis brand? Are gummies the new 'glass of wine?' I've wanted to ask Cameron Clarke, CEO of Sunderstorm, these things for a while. Sunderstorm makes Kanha gummies, among other innovative products you'll hear about today, and Kanha gummies are one of my very favorite cannabis products. And it turns out a lot of my guests love these gummies too. Cameron's going to tell us how Sunderstorm developed a winning formula for these gummies; why testing is such an important part of delivering a consistently high-quality product and why so many customers have flocked to Kanha throughout the pandemic. There's lots more to this episode, including news of Sunderstorm's ongoing expansion beyond California; new products they have in the pipeline; and the question of whether there are other plant-based products forthcoming from the successful brand. If you like the podcast, please subscribe at Apple podcast or Stitcher or your favorite podcast player. And please leave a review so that people can find the show. Thanks to our producer Danny in Milwaukee. And here is my interview with Cameron Clarke. Cannabis is booming, and Kannaboom is on it. Welcome to the Kannaboom Podcast, where we interview experts on the changing story of humans, health and hemp. From San Diego, here's your host Tom Stacey. Welcome back to the Kannaboom podcast this week. I'm really pleased to have Cameron Clarke of Sunderstorm. Hey, Cameron, how are you?

Cameron Clarke 1:12

I'm great. Great. Thanks for inviting me.

Kannaboom 1:15

Well, I had to invite you because one of my standard questions for my guests is what's your favorite cannabis product and people kept saying Kanha gummies. Cannabis infused gummies that's one of the things you guys do. So I just had to have you on the show.

Cameron Clarke 1:30

That sounds great. I'm very happy to hear that. We love them as well.

Kannaboom 1:35

Tell us about Sunderstorm how you got started and what your mission is.

Cameron Clarke 1:39

So, you know, I have a big history in plant medicines and nutrition. You know, I love science. And so, you know, about six years ago, I was doing self-study molecular bio and in San Diego and had opened up a little lab there was doing some algae research and you know, stumbled into a friend who is starting to do some extraction of cannabis oil using similar equipment that I was trying to build. And, you know, I slept on it for a night and I thought you know, why? Why am I not in the cannabis industry? I've been a big advocate of plant medicines. For many years. You know, I've done a you know, been down the Amazon, lived down there for six months in villages with no running water and no electricity, doing some shamanic work and have done other stuff around the world. And, you know, really enjoy the expansion of consciousness and the belief that these plant medicines can help our world. Right. So and help our communities. So it just seemed natural to dive in. I called one of my best friends and former business partners, Keith Cich, and, you know, said, 'Hey, we gotta get we gotta get into cannabis, we have great business experience.' You know, we have, you know, you've been a lifelong consumer of the plant, you know, we both love plant medicines, we should dive in. And, and that's what we did. We really feel like for both of us, I mean, he comes from a financial background, and I come from a science and engineering background, entrepreneurial background. And we really feel like, you know, this is kind of the culmination of all of our life's work, right? He has done a lot of study on consciousness, he has a master's degree in philosophy and consciousness. And really, it was just, this is just an opportunity for us to change the world and do something really powerful and valuable for our world. So that's what got us into this industry. And it's been, it's been a hell of a ride ever since.

Kannaboom 3:46

Your timing has been very good. Just in the past year, we've seen cannabis considered an essential, and I know, you know, we're still in the grips of this pandemic. And it sure seems for me to a lot of people, it's been a real blessing to have a reliable cannabis product, like, like your gummies.

Cameron Clarke 4:03

Yeah. And in addition to the kind of gummies we also have our Nano 5, liposomal, sublinguals that are an incredible product that work phenomenally well, they hit in five to 10 minutes. Which is amazing, because they're powerful nanotechnology. We also have our Wind vapes. I mean, you know, for me, the fact that cannabis was deemed an essential medicine this year, really is just a testament to the fact that the world is understanding the power of this plant. And it's really why we got into this industry. You asked earlier, like, what is our mission? I mean, our mission is to lead people to a life of optimal wellness, using the power of the cannabis plant and leveraging science to deliver the best version of the plant in a consistent and reliable way for our consumers. And that's really what we've done. That's what we care about, we we, we really believe that that this plant can in the wind, the way we drive our businesses is to deliver amazing products that are consistent, reliable. I know that that helps you to help people lead to it to give themselves to a better life. And then also ways that we can actually improve our community, right and use this plant medicine to be able to work better together as as a community, I really think that it, it takes down a lot of the barriers when people interact in there, and when they use this medicine, so that that's a big driver for us as well. So I think, you know, when it did go to when it was deemed essential, essential. business, you know, is pretty clear that the world is understanding our culture and understanding how this is helping so many people.

Kannaboom 5:57

When I first started doing this podcast, it was aimed at kind of baby boomers, people my age and older, who I thought really matched up well with what cannabis can deliver in terms of anxiety relief, insomnia, relief, and we now know, you know, relief from inflammation, and all that. And of course, in the midst of an airborne pandemic, we're also all kind of nervous about our lungs, and I don't like to smoke anyway, and you can look at vaping, but boy, some of those pen style vapes a year or two ago, were proven to be not safe. So has the time of the gummy arrived?

Cameron Clarke 6:31

You know, that's, that's a great question. I mean, we do sell, very, very safe vapes. There's a big community that does love love to vape. But for me, personally, I absolutely agree with you. You know, I'm much more of an ingestible-type type consumer, I've always been very, very health conscious. So for me, smoking hasn't really been an activity that I've participated much in my life, and been a big outdoor enthusiast, and high altitude mountain mountain near. So protecting my lungs has been important. So you know, there's really just one simple reason that edibles have not taken off until just recently, and that is, you know, they just were so unpredictable when we got into this industry. You know, six years ago, you know, we started testing everything, we were one of the first companies in the industry to really test all of our products and test every our competitors products, and we just found that what was being put on the label of the edibles, you know, compared to what was actually inside, the product itself was just vastly different. And it was really, it was really shameful. So we, you know, we said from the very beginning, that we want to be that brand that's very transparent with our consumers, we want to be that company that delivers products that are reliable, consistent, clean, we had a hell of a time trying to find pesticide-free trim in those days to extract was was very frustrating. But we finally got our hands on it. And we made sure that we delivered products to the consumer that were there and were safe and consistent. And with the fact that California has gone, you know, fully regulated and legal now, you know, we are seeing that there are all kinds of edible edible products that are on the shelf now that are much, much safer than then five years ago. And that has started to give new consumers and older consumers as well, confidence that they can take these on a regular basis. And so and that's what's happening. You know, there's lots of consumers that don't want to smoke. And now they have a way to actually consume cannabis in a way that's, that really works for them. The other thing that's really important, and what Sunderstorm delivers through our Kanha gummies is that, as well as through our Nano 5 is that, you know, we want to make sure that the consumer gets the effect as rapidly as possible. So we were the very first company in the entire industry to deliver a nanotechnology product five years ago, and sell it to the consumer. Because, you know, we love science and we wanted to make sure that the consumers got products that worked faster, right and were more reliable. So we've done our research over the years to make sure that we have very powerful nano molecular technologies on our products that really enhance the speed to onset. So you know, with our Nano 5 sublinguals you know, it's five to 10 minutes with our gummies it typically is about half the time with with the technology we use for the technology we use for our Kanha Nanos. It hits in about half the time so if you're typically consuming, that takes you know, 20, you know, 20 to 30 minutes to, to feel the effects of an edible, you know, you'll feel it in 10 to 15 minutes with our Kanha Nanos. And that's a total game changer. So, you know, for us, you know, the fact that the consumer can know that they can take a gummy and know what the experience is, like, gonna be like, just like when drinking a glass of wine. That is a total game changer. And we've seen, you know, the adoption of these edible products grow dramatically over the last 12 to 24 months. And it's just going to continue to happen as more and more consumers realize the great benefits of these edible products and how they can use them in their day to day lives.

Kannaboom 10:47

The last episode, I had Antonio Frasier from CannaSafe on, you probably know him, he runs testing,,

Cameron Clarke 10:54

Yeah, yeah.

Kannaboom 10:54

He mentioned you guys. And we talked a little bit about even the fact of one bud from a plant, it's going to have different cannabinoids in different parts of that bud. How do you keep it so consistent?

Cameron Clarke 11:05

Yeah, that's a great question. And I'll tell you that I am, I am a big believer in the entourage effect. I think that having cannabis products that have all the different you know, great cannabinoids, and, you know, terpenes and, and other types of compounds in the cannabis plant are valuable for consumers. But, you know, I also do think that, you know, for consumers that want really a very consistent, reliable experience, you know, science is important. And you've got to, you've got to be very careful how you mix and match the different cannabinoids and the different elements of the, of the plants. So, you know, it's really too difficult to always use the same thing every time. But what we do is that we measure everything, two and three times we check it all out ahead of time, we blend it very, very carefully blend the various compounds very, very carefully to create very consistent ratios of things. And this is, this has been crucially important for us, from day one, we've always felt like, in order to get that solid consumer experience, you got to be able to measure everything, you know, before you put it deeper, before you blend it, measure it after you blend it and then measure it after you actually put it in the product to make sure that it's right. And, and we've always done those tests, you know, most of CannaSafe over the years, you mentioned Antonio, you know, measure it three or four times every single time. And, and that's been, you know, a very important part of our story is just, you know, using the science and engineering to leverage the power of this wonderful plant to create that consistent, reliable experience. So yeah, I would say that's how we do it, you know, very, very carefully in our Nano 5 sublinguals. And obviously, we do it very carefully in our in our Kanha gummies as well,

Kannaboom 13:18

When you mentioned, like a glass of wine gummies are becoming more culturally and socially acceptable across the board. I think we're in California, but I think around the nation, it's like having a glass of Pinot or a Cabernet and to bring that sort of consistency to a mass produced gummy is an amazing thing.

Cameron Clarke 13:36

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's really one of the reasons we got into this industry, we really felt like there was, you know, the consumers didn't know what they were getting. It varied every time. You couldn't, you know, everybody has an edible story that, you know, it's like, 'Oh, my God, I took this and I had an experience that it didn't really wasn't expecting.' We don't want that in our day to day lives. You know, we want consistency, right. And that's one of the reasons that I got into this business, because I really felt like with my science background, you know, we could deliver that kind of experience for that reliable and consistent experience for consumers. And that's what we've done. And I think the consumers are rewarding us for that, for that mission. And for their understanding of how we do things and you know, we will continue to do that. We will continue to drive innovation and deliver more exciting products for the consumers. We've just launched our kind of Belts, which are a belt product which are great for the higher dose and more experienced consumers. And you know, the nanotechnology will continue to improve to shorten the length of time that the consumer has to wait for the medicine to impact their bodies. We're working on we've just launched a beta product which is called Nano 5 DNA in conjunction with Endocanna Health where the consumers can test their DNA using a DNA test kit similar to 23andMe, or ancestry. And then we make recommendations on products that we can deliver that are specific for their genome. We have the first few products out already getting them onto shelves, and we'll be delivering more of these types of products as we move forward, because cannabis is very personal and impacts our bodies very differently. And this is this, this is exciting technology for the consumer.

Kannaboom 15:45

Yeah, that sounds like next-level stuff. I had an epigenetic coach a while ago who talked about the fact that, you know, we all have a unique genetic profile, some people are going to metabolize faster than others. So the idea of a bespoke medicine, I'm sure people have talked about it, like it's way out in the future, but you're doing that already, which is amazing.

Cameron Clarke 16:03

Yeah, super. It's great stuff. And, and we're very, very excited about it. It's gonna take some time, right, this is, this is, you know, it's not magic. It's science. Science takes time to evolve. There's more research that needs to be done. But we are, we are happy to be on the leading edge, just like we were on the leading edge of the nanotechnology. It's funny, you hear lots of companies out today saying, 'Oh, we know we're delivering, you know, nano emulsified products. You know, we're, we're excited about it.' Well, we've been doing this for over five years. And as the pioneer of this technology in this industry, we will continue to be the leader at that sort of that's one of our objectives.

Kannaboom 16:47

You have the data to show that it's not just another marketing gimmick, people are accustomed in America to gimmicks that don't always really deliver a benefit. But so a nanoparticle it's a smaller molecule. So it's more bioavailable, is that the theory behind it?

Cameron Clarke 17:03

Yeah, that's essentially the way it works. So we use two different technologies. In our Nano 5 liposomal oral spray, it uses this liposome technology, which has been around for decades, using the pharmaceutical industry for many, many years. And it's essentially a nanoscale ball of fat, which is crazy small, it's about the same size for all intensive purposes as the enzymes in your gut, about one 1,000th of the size of a human cell with the cannabinoids inserted inside it. And so it just goes in right through your right sublingually gets into your bloodstream within five to 10 minutes. And whatever is, you know, left and goes into the gut is not processed by your gut, it's delivered directly into the bloodstream as well. So that technology basically is absorbed very quickly because of the size of the particles into the bloodstream. And then the outer shell of that is called a phospholipid which is essentially the same molecule as the membrane as your cell membranes. And so this is food for yourselves. And so your cells quickly absorb the phospholipids, which come from sunflowers, by the way, because they're your cell membranes are constantly rebuilt, getting rebuilt just like the skin on just like your skin that it flakes off. And as the cells absorb the phospholipids, well, the cannabinoids then get inserted into your cells, where they can do the work that they need to do. So that technology is very powerful. And it's really all about, you know, getting into the bloodstream faster and getting into the cells to do the work more efficiently. So you know, that technology we get, you know, typically in an oral spray, you'll get maybe 20 to 30% bioavailability, which is how much actually ends up in the bloodstream. With this technology, we get 80 to 90% of the cannabinoids in the bloodstream. And we know this because we've actually put people in a hospital taking their blood every 15 minutes after they've consumed this product. And we've measured the cannabinoids that are actually in their bloodstream. So this is not hocus pocus. This is legit stuff. We've been selling this product for years. It works phenomenally well. And and you know we're excited about now in our gummies and our Kanha nano gummies. We use a different technology, which is called SEDD, Self Emulsifying Drug Delivery system, which is basically a technology that starts to break down the cannabinoid or the cannabis oil in the gummy as it's sitting on the shelf. So that by the time it gets into your gut, it's already kind of broken down and ready to be absorbed very, very quickly by your gut, so, that it also hits very, very fast and has very high bioavailability and gets into the bloodstream. So that I can do the work as well. So, the SEDD technology has also been around for decades, it's used by very large CPG companies, Nestle uses it, for example. And, you know, we're, you know, one of the very first companies in the cannabis industry to deliver this, this technology into an edible product and also very excited about that.

Kannaboom 20:32

That's fantastic to learn some of the science behind it, and you know, what you described with the spray, I would think is more akin to smoking and that you can titrate your dosage. It's not the old scenario where you eat a brownie and sit around in it, nothing happens, you eat another brownie, and then you're way too high. I think some of us remember Maureen Dowd, The New York Times columnist who went to Colorado and probably didn't read the label and ate a whole chocolate bar and then just freaked out and crawled in her closet and didn't know if she was dead or alive. Yeah, probably set acceptance of edibles back by five years, just with that story, because of the platform she had. There's that and then there's the idea that yeah, maybe with that spray, your customers are able to titrate their dosage more precisely.

Cameron Clarke 21:19

That is absolutely the case. It's really interesting. In our old sprays, we have a very low amount of cannabinoids in a milliliter. So you have basically 10 milligrams in a whole ml. So a single squirt is about a quarter of a milliliter or 250 microliters. And, you know, that's only two and a half milligrams of cannabinoids. So you can very easily, you know, take a very small dose and figure out what's right for you, you feel the effect very quickly, right? And then you decide if that's if that's where you want to be. And each one a little more, you take another squirt, and you can very easily figure out what is the right dose for you. And that's super important for consumers. Because everybody's different, I happen to be a little bit of a lightweight, cannabis interacts with my body very efficiently, I guess is how I'd put it. So I don't need I don't need a lot of cannabis oil to get the effects that I'm seeking. So for me being able to, like you say, titrate it to have that smaller dose and dose it up as I need. It's very powerful. And this is another reason that our Kanha nano gummies offer different types, but we offer the five milligram versions for consumers that want something a little, a little less, right. And if they really just want to get to two and a half milligrams, they can cut the gummy in half. And then if they want a little more they can have the other half. And they can decide what is the right dose for them. We have a lot of different types of products, we have a lot of different potencies and ratios because every consumer is different. And we want to provide tools that are valuable, or products that are valuable for the consumers to get exactly what they need. And so that's that's one of our missions as well.

Kannaboom 23:20

I've seen your gummies on the shelf at the dispensary. I haven't seen the other products. Can you tell us where we can find those products?

Cameron Clarke 23:26

Yeah, the best place is to go up on our website, Sunderstorm.com. And we have a geo locator or we have a way for you actually to get them delivered to your house, directly to your house. If you just didn't know if you think it's called where to buy it on Sunderstorm.com and you can get it delivered anywhere in California.

Kannaboom 23:52

Are you guys planning to expand your reach? Are you looking beyond California?

Cameron Clarke 23:57

Yeah, in fact, we announced, a couple months ago, we are opening up very, very soon in Massachusetts in Colorado. I'm very excited about that. And we are about to make another announcement this next week. Everybody should pay attention because we're opening up to other new states. And we have opened up in Canada as well. So you can buy Kanha gummies in Canada, you can buy it very shortly in Massachusetts, in Colorado, and two other states will be shortly behind that. And then in the second half of the year, we're looking to open up into a few more states. So we're growing quickly. You know, we're definitely one of the top brands in California. Really because we have an amazing team that really cares about everything that we do; very passionate about what we put out in the world. And we're just franchising that concept into other states. So that you know, so that consumers who constantly email us from other states can finally get access to our, to our great products.

Kannaboom 25:06

I've talked with other guests on the podcast about the difficulty of being in multiple states, you know, there's different packaging requirements, sometimes there's different processing requirements, there's a lot of hurdles to becoming a national brand.

Cameron Clarke 25:19

Oh, yeah, definitely, it is, you know, very few brands have actually accomplished this, it's really, it's really starting to happen, this is the year of the of the national brands, you know, in order to be a true national brand, you had to get to scale in wherever market, you were, you're starting out in, in order to be big enough to be able to get into other states, I mean, clearly the MSOs they have their brands, they have been putting them into into different states for for a few years. But, you know, they they started in generally a started in vertically integrated states, where they were they, you know, sell their own products into their own retail locations, the world is starting to change a little bit, where the the power cord is, you know, I call the powerful West Coast brands are starting to look east and starting to move, move east. And this will be the year when you see, you know, these brands really start to take hold in other markets. There. You know, for many years, there's been a, there's been a number of licensing deals that have been done in other states, not very many of them have really gotten much made much hay, licensing is a tricky way to drive your brand, you kind of lose control of it a little bit. So you know, we've never really been fully on board with a licensing model all that, although that is what we did in Canada, you have to right, you have to really find the perfect partner, and you have to really hold their hand and make sure that the brand is protected, and that you you're able to deliver the same kinds of products everywhere, that you have that license, but you know, we really are setting up shop in the states. And, and doing it in conjunction with a really good partner who's allowing us to do it ourselves, or, or, you know, completely doing it ourselves. So you're gonna see more of that, because the brand, you know, the brands in California, for example, are big enough, Oregon has had some successful, large brands as well, that have gotten to enough scale that they can start, you know, generating the capital that's required to go expand into these other markets that really do the marketing and market development, business development that is required to do to actually build a nationwide brand. You know, branding is about building trust with the consumer. And the consumers want to know, you know, what you stand for, and want to understand as much as they can about your product. So, you know, that takes a significant amount of marketing and, and brand building. And that's, that's starting to happen. We're in the midst of that, you're going to see a lot more of that in the next 12 to 24 months. This is the time for the big brands to start really taking hold as national brands.

Kannaboom 28:23

You guys had a partnership with HBO Max.

Cameron Clarke 28:26

Yeah, that was a phenomenal experience. We're very excited to be a part of that. HBO was a fantastic partner for us. And I think it really proved that, you know, a large traditional media company can work with a cannabis brand to deliver something that is culturally relevant. You know, cannabis has been very important for our culture for a long time. But now it's out of the darkness and into the light. By the way, a Sunderstorm is a thunderstorm where the sun shines through the rain clouds. And that's why we named the company that way. Because we want to help this industry step into the light of the sunshine. But, you know, we know, you know, HBO took a little bit of a risk. And when they launched a new show, and they wanted to create a bag of gummies for each of their characters, it was really customized for each of them. So we made those products for them. And we worked on packaging designs together. And basically they just use these, his gummies put them out in the world to get consumers excited about this new TV show. And to be honest, it went off without a hitch. I mean, we were thrilled to be part of it. We worked hard with HBO to deliver something that really worked well. And I think they were quite pleased as well. And I think you know, we really proved that. You know there can be a relationship between, you know, traditional media and the new cannabis brand. To deliver something that consumers want, I mean, consumers are excited about this industry, we see how fast it's growing. You know, the adoption curve is quite rapid. You know, it's culturally, very important these days, it's helped a lot of cannabis, it's helped a lot of people through the stress and strain of 2020, the craziness of 2020. And, you know, the HBO relationship really just proved that, that companies from different worlds can work well together to, to be, you know, engaging for the consumer. So, yeah, that was, that was a great, great opportunity for us,

Kannaboom 30:38

Smashing stereotypes too; I mean, Cheech and Chong were great, nothing wrong with those guys. But that's sort of a 70s stereotype that still is out there, there's a lot of people who still think cannabis is for stoners and weed is, it's gonna slow you down, it's not something that you would want to do all the time. And you guys are making the product available, be showing how to use it responsibly, and making it easy for people to, as you said, have an alternative to a glass of wine.

Cameron Clarke 31:05

Yeah, definitely. I mean, we, you know, we understand, we have you know, a lot of our team members are our high-dose consumers, their regular daily consumers, they love the plant. You know, I think that that's always going to be an important part of the market. You know, but I think that, you know, there's a whole new set of consumers that are excited about it, that are coming on stream, that are, that are learning about cannabis, and realizing that they also can use it on a day to day basis. But, you know, in a different way, right? You know, lots of consumers are taking our Tranquility gummies just to sleep at night, because they work phenomenally well, or our Tranquility sublinguals. You know, that's, and you can use it every day, it's not gonna, it's, it's not going to hurt you, you're going to be, you're going to accomplish your goal to sleep better, and, you know, you can use or other types of products, you know, depending on what your needs are. So, you know, I think that's that the world is realizing that and it's, it's exciting to be to be part of that these days,

Kannaboom 32:17

I've often used your indica gummies, and I'll cut them in half, you know, an hour before bedtime, and yeah, it's, it helps me a lot. It's kind of a, maybe an artificial line between recreational and medicinal, you know, lately, I think there's maybe a third category, which is wellness. And that's the way I think maybe a lot of people are looking at these products.

Cameron Clarke 32:37

You know, it's it's interesting that you say that, because we've never really believed in the differentiation between recreational and medicinal, we believed in the wellness category, which is the one you just mentioned, we see that recreational and medicinal are actually in the wellness category. You know, it could very well be that, you know, you wake up in the morning, you know, you might have a little back pain. So you might take a squirt of one of our high CBD of our Sunrise sublingual, you know, to deal with the pain, and then you might, you know, smoke a vape or smoke a joint with your, with your friends at night, to just as a social lubricant or to socialize. They're both part of living a life of optimal wellness, you know, socialization is a very important human behavior. Right and, and things that you know, that that these these plant compounds that help allow people to socialize, allow us to laugh, laughter is the best medicine allow us to interact with each other, allow us to commune with each other, that builds a sense of community like we talked about at the beginning of this podcast, all that super important, it leads you to a happier better life and that is a life of optimal optimal wellness. Same thing if you have a condition. You know, if you have you know, some severe IBD or a gut condition or something. You know, it's very important to treat it. Cannabis is great to treat a variety of conditions. So again, what you're doing is improving your life so that you live a better life of wellness, it's all under the wellness category. That's the way we see it. And I think it's important for the consumers to understand that you can integrate this, this plant into your day to day life in ways that you previously probably didn't really feel was possible. And part of that is because you know you can now get access to products that are reliable. You can get access to products that are lower dose, right or the door you can dose to the to whatever it is that you need. So you can integrate it into your life, whether you're going for a run, or dealing with some pain or just socializing with your, with your community. So, all that's very, very important for our culture.

Kannaboom 35:08

You know, I've had medical professionals on and we've talked about the nature of this medicine, it asks you to pay closer attention to yourself, which in the wellness space is almost essential. A lot of times in the West, we have thought of doctors as we go to them for surgery and pills. But if you can have a sort of a new paradigm where you're a little more awoke to your own body, and cannabis can facilitate that, it can really make a positive difference for people.

Cameron Clarke 35:36

Yeah, they're there, there is no doubt about it, you know, and, and to be honest, I mean, when you when you spend some time, you know, learning about shamanism and, and various practices, you know, naturopathic practices with plant medicines around the world, you know, this has been going on for 1000s of years, and a lot of Western medicine comes from, you know, these these, these these tribal medicines, right, natural plant compounds and, you know, they they've done great things for for for humanity, and cannabis is no different. We just need to make sure that we deliver it in a safe and consistent way for the consumer to be able to integrate it.

Kannaboom 36:24

I don't want to put you on the spot. But when you talk about plant based medicines, is there anything besides cannabis in the future? For Sunderstorm?

Cameron Clarke 36:36

Oh boy, a tough one. I mean, I am definitely an advocate of plant medicines. I've done a lot of shamanic work in my life. I like I said, I live down in, in, you know, six months in the Amazon forest deep in the jungle. You know, I've had experiences in West Africa. You know, I'm a huge believer in the expansion of consciousness, and how, you know, the study of consciousness can lead our society into managing, you know, societal issues in a different way. I think there's, you know, there's a lot of interest these days, for sure. And, you know, in psilocybin, for example, even even ayahuasca, there is a lot of talk about these psychoactive compounds and how they're how they're helping deal with a variety of conditions, we're gonna see more and more of that. So nothing yet on the horizon. No decisions yet for us. But I will tell you that both Keith and I are big believers in the value of these, these compounds to heal. So when the time is right, yeah, you might, you might you might see some activity from us.

Kannaboom 37:58

Obviously, you figured out the science and the branding and the compliance and all that you've got a great foundation if you do decide to expand that way. Cameron, I have to ask you, because I ask everyone, do you have a favorite cannabis product or service and I guess I would ask, do you have a favorite Sunderstorm product and do you have a favorite non Sunderstorm product?

Cameron Clarke 38:16

Yeah, yeah, you know, it's interesting. I love our Nano 5 sublinguals, they work phenomenally well for me. I take you know we have different kinds I take the high CBD sometimes in the middle of the night for example just to relax the mind so I can go back to sleep if I'm stressed about something or I'll take all socialize with our Harmony one to one or the Lucidity which has 5 HTP in it which is really helps you helps you you know improve your sense of happiness. That's a great one they work. They just tend to work very well with me personally. Again, I'm not a huge smoker. But then you know that what's interesting is recently I've gotten turned on to a beverage from another company called Rebel Coast. I was very impressed with this beverage. I thought it worked fantastically well and I do like their product as well. It's tasty and works quite well with me as well.

Kannaboom 39:25

Is that a THC product?

Cameron Clarke 39:27

Yes, it's a THC product, yeah, absolutely. I think there's gonna be, I know, my partner and I have a little difference of opinion but I do believe that that the beverage category will eventually be quite strong. It's going to take some time. It has to be more like you know, drinking a glass of wine or drinking a beer but the industry has made a lot of progress for sure. And we'll see some improvements in that category as we go. There's a lot of people that just, you know, want to move away from alcohol. You know, they're tired of waking up with hangovers. It saps your energy. I, you know, I'm a beer drinker. And I get it. But at the same time, I think there's a lot of room for cannabis to take some market share away from the alcoholic beverage industry.

Kannaboom 40:25

I definitely agree. I think a lot of people again, back to baby boomers who, for years have been kind of abusing their liver and would welcome an alternative that can help them relax and have a ritual and not have to worry about the long term damage to their health.

Cameron Clarke 40:40

Yeah, absolutely.

Kannaboom 40:42

Cameron is there anything we haven't covered that we should?

Cameron Clarke 40:44

I think we've covered quite a bit. You know, I think it's, you know, you know, I think I think what's important is, is that cannabis is finally here. You know, it is is the adoption curve is happening real time, consumers are our understanding it, you know, I think it's, you know, California, we've been leading the charge with incredible cannabis products for many, many years, you know, we have, we have a good culture here of innovation. You know, and that, you know, you'll start to see these, these that that level of high quality products flow into other states, and there's a lot of interest. So this industry is going to be very explosive in the next, you know, few years. And that's going to be exciting. But it's also incumbent upon all of us in the industry, to do it the right way, right, to make sure that our products are safe or consistent or clean, or reliable, that we're not skirting the regulations, you know, we have to work well as a community, so that we gain the trust of consumers. And like I said earlier, a brand is nothing more than a transparent relationship between a manufacturer and a consumer, and, and a product developer and a consumer. And, you know, in order to earn the trust of the consumers, we got to do the right thing. And we got to work hard together to do that. The other thing is, I was, you know, I just want to recognize the fact that, you know, we are very fortunate to be here at Sunderstorm. And we're here because we stand on the shoulders of giants, you know, the revolutionaries that put a lot of work and effort forth, over the last, you know, decades to fight this fight to make sure that this incredible plant medicine is available to the consumer. And I just want to give a shout out to all those folks that have been doing trench warfare forever, to really get this product into consumers hands. So I have a lot of gratitude for their hard work.

Kannaboom 43:00

Well said, there's this social equity piece to this that we all know is important. But you know, in terms of the transparency, I think, again, it gets back to the testing and the consistency. And that's not a super sexy thing to talk about. But it's so fundamental to have that integrity in the product so that when people take it off the shelf, they know they're going to have a good experience, like the last time they use this product, there's not a guesswork involved. Even if you're buying flowers, you may have a different experience again, because the flower itself is a variable product, you guys have found a way to make sure that the consistency is always there. And I think that is the foundation of a great brand.

Cameron Clarke 43:39

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the consumers just want to know what to expect, you know, and they want to, they want to pay and then they're excited about it.

Kannaboom 43:47

So where do we find you online?

Cameron Clarke 43:49

Yeah. So you can, you can follow us on Instagram and at Kanha Treats. You can also go or at, at by Sunderstorm. For that for the company. And then the best place is www.Sunderstorm.com. So that's where you find all of our products where to buy our products, you can actually buy some of the products directly from our website that will go out to our retail partners. And if they have any questions, feel free to email us. there's links on the site where you can email us directly to get more information.

Kannaboom 44:28

Thank you for sharing your spectacular success story and best of luck in 2021.

Cameron Clarke 44:33

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Tom.

Kannaboom 44:36

You've been listening to the Kannaboom podcast with host Tom Stacey. If you like the show and want to know more, please check us out at Kannaboom with a k.com. And please leave us a review at Apple podcasts or wherever you listen. See you next week.