64 | Vanessa Peck, Elevated Healing

“We’re not talking about kids rolling a joint… rather we’re approaching this from a medical perspective where we’re starting low, going slow. We know the profile that’s occurring and we’re using the most minimal dose possible possible to reach the therapeutic effect.”

— Vanessa Peck

Some childhood diseases are difficult to treat — autism and epilepsy among them. When Vermont-based pediatric nurse Vanessa Peck saw what a single dose of CBD did for one her young patients, her curiosity was piqued, and she soon was on board. Today she runs Elevated Healing, and helps parents learn about how CBD and cannabis can help address very difficult childhood diseases, safely and effectively. Listen and learn how:

    • CBD can help with autism, ADHD, epilepsy and other conditions.
    • The medical profession is slowly beginning to accept cannabis as a legitimate medicine.
    • Weight-based dosing and 1:1 CBD to THC ratios can help mitigate intoxicating effects
    • Vanessa and others are working to overcome challenges we still face in gaining greater acceptance for medicinal cannabis.

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Transcript of Podcast Episode with Vanessa Peck, Elevated Healing

Kannaboom © Copyright 2020

Kannaboom (00:00): There's not much in life that's worse than seeing a child suffer -- not over something like a stubbed toe, but with an intractable disease like autism or epilepsy, where nothing seems to work and everyone feels helpless and hopeless. This is what got to pediatric nurse Vanessa Peck. When a parent got involved in their child's treatment, Vanessa saw what CBD can do for young patients. And she changed the course of her career to help bring relief to families. She started a business called Elevated Health and a large part of her mission is educational — helping parents understand the promise and potential of medicinal cannabis and consulting with families who want to use this life-saving medicine. That's what we're talking about in this episode. Whether you're a subscriber or a first time listener, please stop by and see us at Kannaboom with a K dot com. We are focused on how cannabinoids and CBD can help you achieve better wellness and importantly, how to find CBD that's trusted and reliable. If you like the podcast, please subscribe and please leave a review so other people can find the show. And here's my interview with Vanessa Peck.

Kannaboom (00:56): Cannabis is booming and Kannaboom is on it. Welcome to the Kannaboom podcast, where we interview experts on the changing story of humans, health and hemp, from San Diego. Here's your host, Tom Stacey. It's Tom. Welcome back to the Kannaboom podcast. We're here today with Vanessa Peck, a pediatric nurse with Elevated Health. Hi, Vanessa.

Vanessa Peck (01:16): Tom, thank you for having me

Kannaboom (01:18): Glad to have you on, because it's a topic that we need to talk about and that's cannabis and pediatric patients — tell us how you came into this field.

Vanessa Peck (01:26): Yeah, so I stumbled upon it a couple of years ago. So I've been an ER nurse for the last 12 years. I'm working with both adult and pediatrics. So about, I'd say two years ago now had a pediatric patient that was autistic and the patient needed to be admitted, unfortunately, and mom had pulled the ER physician and I aside saying, you know, "Hey, before we tell him, I just want to let you know that there may be a pretty significant reaction to this. Essentially kind of like a meltdown that sometimes is difficult to calm him down." so the ER physician had pulled me aside at that time and said that she had ordered some Ativan, which is a sedative as needed in case we couldn't calm him down. I had let mom know this and she had said good. But before we do that, she's like, 'I actually have a CBD oil, which tends to be very effective for him. Let me try that first. And if in 20 minutes he's still reacting the same way, then we'll do the Ativan.' so had let the doctor know. So everybody knew what was going on. It was on the same page. Mom gave him a CBD oil. I walked away and took care of some other patients. And I would say about 20 minutes later, I started walking towards the room and I noticed it was very quiet. And I was like, wow, this what? So I walked into the room and there, he was laying in his bed, laughing with his parents watching TV. And I think mom could see my face. Like just priceless, like, wow. And so we had gotten into a conversation at that time. And mom had told me, you know, they had been through the ringer with medications, for him, ones that worked temporarily ones that didn't work at all ones that did work temporarily. There were a lot of side effects and they needed another medication. She said it was, it was frustrating. And she did a little research and she heard about CBD and decided to try it. She said, the minute she gave it to him, she said it worked better than anything else that they had given him. And she said his life had changed and their family life had changed and she really swore by it. And she was like, and 'I don't care what anybody says.' She's like, 'This is what works.' and she even talked about how her mother that was living with them who had dementia and was having more frequent episodes of sundowning, which just refers to increased confusion during a certain period of day. And she started giving her mother CBD oil and also was having these great responses to it. So since then I've been just, I was dabbling in some research in it and just educating myself. But it wasn't until recently listening to another podcast, actually about a nurse who is into cannabis and educating people that I really was just like this I've, you know, thought about that experience. And I was like, this is, this is what I need to do.

Kannaboom (04:26): There's nothing like direct experience. And I know a lot of times in the medical profession, you need clinical studies, anecdotal evidence is always kind of taken with a grain of salt, but in your case, I have to hand it to you when you see something that works and makes such a huge difference. You want to go out and help other people experience that.

Vanessa Peck (04:47): A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And that's exactly where I'm at with that right now, for sure.

Kannaboom (04:51): Is Elevated Health your own company?

Vanessa Peck (04:53): It is my own company.

Kannaboom (04:55): So when did you launch?

Vanessa Peck (04:57): I launched in June and have been, you know, progressively getting it off the ground and helping with people, creating courses to help educate parents in this area who may be interested in cannabis. But as we know, there's a lot of information out there that can be confusing, navigating the world of cannabis can be confusing. So I'm trying to take that confusion out and make it a little bit easier for parents to make the best, most informed decision for themselves as to whether or not this is a good option for them and their child.

Kannaboom (05:34): There's still a lot of baggage, a lot of stigma with cannabis in our culture. So have you hit any resistance along the way in kind of evangelizing this.

Vanessa Peck (05:44): Oh, a hundred percent and it's not just from the public, but also from the medical community as well. You know, I think because there's such a lack of education out there and people really don't know the right information versus the bad information or the inaccurate information. You know, also, you know, a lot of parents feel like, you know, 'Oh, this is too good to be true.' This is another one of those alternative things that people are just putting a lot of emphasis on. And it really doesn't when we know there's evidence and science behind it, the thing is, it just is not in the category that some people would want it to be in order for it to push them forward. But unfortunately as if marijuana remains a Schedule One drug, you know, it makes it that much more difficult to get the funding we need to do all the research we want to do to show that this really is a very transformative and restorative herb and a great option for people. So for sure the obstacles are there but we just need to keep forging forth and breaking them down and getting over these barriers to really show people what, what it can do.

Kannaboom (06:59): You are in Vermont, right? Are you medicinally legal there?

Vanessa Peck (07:03): So we are medicinally and recreational legally legal here in the state of Vermont. Yeah.

Kannaboom (07:09): So that probably helps for sure. You wouldn't be able to do it. Yeah.

Vanessa Peck (07:13): No. It does help, but I will say coming from the nursing perspective of it and just working with a couple other nurses who are in the same field here it's not quite recognized or supported for nurses to be educating people on this, but where we are also working very hard to get, you know, the state board of nursing and other associations behind us, because even though the state may not be behind us, we do have the American Nurses Association and also also the National Council for Nurses as well that, you know, have stated this is a big part of nursing and that nurses need to really be on the front lines of this and helping educate and, and navigate people through the world of cannabis.

Kannaboom (08:00): Have you found allies, medical doctors who are believers in this too?

Vanessa Peck (08:05): Yeah, there are a few. I will say that there's still a lot of you know a lot of educating that needs to happen with the medical doctors as well. Especially when it comes to pediatrics, just because all the science and evidence is not there. However it's going that direction. The Journal of Pediatric Medicine is actually going to be publishing an article. I'm not sure when it's coming out, but they specifically discuss a study that they've done on CBD versus THC for pediatric chronic illness. So it's going that direction and we're going to see more and more doctors get on board with this as more studies come out,

Kannaboom (08:45): How much THC are you bringing into this? And can you talk about dosing as well?

Vanessa Peck (08:51): That's more dependent on what we're trying to treat, and also dependent on the parent. There's a lot of education behind the fact you know, a lot of parents think when they just hear cannabis, you know, I think automatically a lot of people's minds go to THC and the psychoactive component of it. They don't realize all the other constituents that cannabis you know, carries such as CBD CBN CBG. And terpenes so with regard to that by teaching parents that if you know what the properties of THC are and how we can counteract the psychoactive component with it with CBD we kind of decide together whether or not is the THC needed. Do we need the benefits of THC? If not, you know, we could just do the CBD route. If we do feel that we need some of the THC benefit, then we, you know, load up on the CBD dose to counteract the effects of the THC. Um so really we work more of a collaborative effort, the parents and I, and kind of go from there. And in terms of dosing, you know, it's start low, go slow. So we titrate very slowly and we kind of do it weight-based. So it's like we kind of start with a 0.5 milligrams per kilo based on what we want to achieve. And then from there, you know, I have the parents keep a journal, you know, what kind of effects are they having any effects from it? Do we kind of need to increase the dose over a course of time? And we, we just want to get, we just want to reach the minimal dose where we're going to reach that therapeutic effect.

Kannaboom (10:33): Well, no parent is eager to have their child have a psychoactive experience, but if you're dealing with a really intractable disease like epilepsy or autism or something, I guess you balance that out. Right. And as you say, if you load up on CBD, does that really help temper the psychoactivity?

Vanessa Peck (10:51): It does. So by loading up even doing a one-to-one ratio usually will prevent that psychoactive effect. But sometimes it's, it's really dependent on a person's body chemistry as well. Sometimes it may take a little bit more CBD to kind of counteract those psychoactive effects. You know, somebody may be more sensitive to it than others. It's all about how somebody may be metabolizing you know, the THC and CBD. So unfortunately it's still kind of an art in a sense, and you're kind of playing with it. But as long as parents go into that, understanding that it tends to be a nice working collaborative relationship. And you usually find that sweet spot that you need.

Kannaboom (11:37): Epidiolex is a pharmaceutical that has an isolate in it. Do you look for a full-spectrum brand or what, how do you source your CBD?

Vanessa Peck (11:46): So I tend to look for more of a full spectrum just to get that whole plant in. And you know, I definitely research to figure out who has you know, really test their products thoroughly. What's organic, you know, what does their certificate of analysis look like? You know, I work hand in hand too, with other companies, even local ones here that do very rigorous testing and, and really just try to figure out, you know, what's the purest best form, but not, not everybody full spectrum is gonna work best for. So that's something else that you need to consider. Some people don't want anything to do with any possibility of any traces of THC being in the product. So then you'd go the isolate route, but you explain to them, you know, what could be the advantages and disadvantages of an isolate versus something that's full spectrum. So try to go the full spectrum route, but we kind of have to be collaborative and figure that out together.

Kannaboom (12:50): The entourage effect, you have to explain that. So there's a lot of education too.

Vanessa Peck (12:54): Yes. A hundred percent. So, and you try to break it down into small pieces. So people really understand what is behind all of this and how it works. You know, how it works on the body, how everything has different interactions together what kind of effects you can get from the entourage effect versus using a full spectrum versus if you just use an isolate and really just by giving all the right information, you know, parents really have the ability to make, you know, the best informed decision for their child. And they feel very involved in that. And like they have a little bit more control over what's going on when sometimes with a lot of these situations, a lot of it feels out of control.

Kannaboom (13:36): Right? I mean, that's another aspect of the whole cannabis in health picture is a lot of times the patient ends up being more involved than in a sort of a traditional doctor patient relationship, right?

Vanessa Peck (13:47): Yes. A hundred percent, a hundred percent, which is something that I think is really valuable for a parent. And something that a lot of them are seeking and feel like they don't have control. And I don't mean control in a negative way, but just feeling like they don't feel helpless, you know?

Kannaboom (14:03): Yeah. And there's a lot of input. I mean, kind of what you're describing is a test and learn process. I mean, we're going to try this full spectrum or isolate, and we're going to see how that does. That's kind of the approach, right?

Vanessa Peck (14:15): Exactly.

Kannaboom (14:15): Other success stories. I mean, are there other conditions besides autism that you've treated so far?

Vanessa Peck (14:21): A lot of it is focused on autism. But also with autism, there tends to be epilepsy, not epilepsy, but seizure disorders as well. So that kind of works hand in hand and we are seeing some children have a dissipation in seizures. There may not be a complete cessation of it, but where they're having very few of them or parents haven't seen them for months at a time. So there is great success with, and we're seeing quality of life improve for these children. And that's what parents are that that's what they want. That's their goal. They just want to see the best life that they can further their child.

Kannaboom (15:03): Right. And I imagine there's a lot of word of mouth. I mean, parents who have had this experience are probably eager to tell other parents about it.

Vanessa Peck (15:10): Yeah, definitely. And, and that, and that's starting to slowly happen. I think a lot of parents are trepidatious because of the stigma that is surrounds cannabis. But as you educate parents and make them feel more comfortable with it, and they essentially almost become an expert in the field themselves to the point where they're actually educating their own child, clinicians as well. You know, I think they become more confident and create a mindset that allows them to feel like they can speak openly about it without having the stigma because they have the right information. They've been armed with the tools and the information that's needed to feel confident, confident to talk about it.

Kannaboom (15:51): And do you do education around, okay, we have an endocannabinoid system and we have CB1 and CB2 receptors, and this is about homeostasis. I mean, do you get to that level or do you just say, 'Hey, it works and that's good enough.'?

Vanessa Peck (16:05): No, I, I definitely get to that level and I try to break it down into simpler terms. And that's actually my goal with this course that I'm creating to offer parents to try to reach the masses so they can better understand like, okay, so you say it works for my child, but why, why does it work? And I, I think we need to educate people that there, there's a reason why mother nature intended for this plant to be here because it works synergistically with a system within our body. That may be, and I even go to the point where, you know, your child may be deficient of these endocannabinoids and these cannabinoids exist in this plant that mother nature has provided us. So if we try and supplement what may be deficient we are, we're going to see results. And this is why we do see results. We have to question, why does it work? So there's gotta be something there's gotta be a missing piece. And now we're supplementing that missing piece and we're getting these positive outcomes.

Kannaboom (17:05): Yeah. I struggle myself with telling that story in a concise fashion, cause it's kind of complex and, and you know, we've been again the whole decades-long propaganda effort that convinced everybody that there's this reefer madness thing and you should have nothing to do with cannabis. I mean, you have to overcome that first.

Vanessa Peck (17:24): Definitely. and when you, when you break it down into simpler terms and you, you kind of illustrate that the research has kind of been there for a long time now, but just hidden and not really that that we've known for a long time, the benefits of cannabis you know, people start to better understand, or it piques their interests that they want to know more. And then that's when you start breaking down barriers.

Kannaboom (17:54): You mentioned your course, tell us more about that.

Vanessa Peck (17:56): So I'm still in the final stages of it. It should be offered sometime in November. But it's a course. I plan on providing courses to parents surrounding medical cannabis and then for a certain condition right now, I'm focusing on autism in this course what my goal is to arm parents with the information they need, the right information about what this is all about, how it can help their child you know, how it affects the body, how we can do dosing administration and then also how they can speak to their child's clinician about this too, because it's something that's going to have to be spoken about and it could be a scary topic to, to approach. So with that the goal of the course is not to only educate them, but again, to allow them to make the best informed decision, if this route that they've been thinking about this alternative route is the right one for them and their child,

Kannaboom (18:57): Will that course be online or are you teaching in person or how will that work?

Vanessa Peck (19:02): It's going to be online for now only because of COVID. And plus I just feel that maybe I can reach more people that way. And I'm still trying to complete my full idea of it. I mean, I know exactly what it would be teaching, but maybe doing some Q and A sessions too, that after they watched the course, you know, maybe we all get together form a community and any types of questions that parents may have, something that they didn't understand in the, in the lesson we can review and really make them feel confident about what they're learning.

Kannaboom (19:36): So autism and epilepsy are there other conditions?

Vanessa Peck (19:40): Yeah. I'm also focusing on ADD / ADHD. Any children that may be suffering from anxiety, depression, OCD, which a lot of that stuff can be associated with some of these, you know, autism can also have some of these components. And also any children who may be being treated for cancer and parents want to do symptom management with it, or they're also just looking for an alternative that may be supportive to the chemo treatments and radiation and also a condition called pandas which has to do more with some deficiencies or components that occur from a strep infection infection that may be, you know, anxiety, OCD, other things have developed because of a possible strep infection. So those are the things that I'm focusing on right now. Okay.

Kannaboom (20:36): Yeah. I've heard of Pandas in relation to COVID to, as sort of an aftereffect. Is that a thing?

Vanessa Peck (20:43): It, I think it's, it's in theory, it's a working theory right now. I don't think it's just the strep infection. It's a working theory right now as well. So I haven't looked too much into the COVID part of it, but I know it's definitely something that's coming down the line and being discussed.

Kannaboom (20:58): So your course will be online. Is it just for people locally or can people across the country tune in?

Vanessa Peck (21:04): Across the country to tune in for sure. So like I said, I want to... my goal is to reach the masses. I want people to know that this is a viable option and that it's, it's a place where people can get a lot of pertinent, most up to date, accurate information, rather than having to do the research, trying to figure out what's a good source versus a bad source, or just hearing word of mouth from somebody. And you're just not really sure, you know, if it's true or not true,

Kannaboom (21:32): Right. Say somebody is in Wyoming or somewhere, and you give them this knowledge. Do you have any recommendation for how they should use that? If they're not near you, who they could engage with, could they find a health care professional locally, or, or what would be steps that they could take to help their child?

Vanessa Peck (21:50): Yeah. So if they take the course and they you know, wanted to move further ahead with it I do offer one on one consultations as well, where I can work one on one with the parents and their child where we can do an intake you know, discuss the medical history, medications that they're on the goal and what the goal of the therapy is. What is it that they're trying to quell? Is it self injurious behaviors? Is it anxiety? Is it seizures, anything like that? And then from there, we can work hand in hand to determine and come up with a treatment plan, you know, looking at a profile whether it's CBD something full spectrum versus isolate THC, anything like that to help quality symptoms and reach that goal and work together. Have the parents journal what's working, what's not working and we would have follow ups. If they were interested in that, if not you know, I would definitely suggest to them to try to look for somebody locally another healthcare professional, which there are some directories, but if people are living in a state where, you know, it's not legalized medical marijuana, it's going to become more difficult to find people that are, that are willing to work with them and collaborate on creating a treatment plan. So that's where my company comes into where I do one on one consultations as well.

Kannaboom (23:10): So full on kind of telemedicine. We are in the age of Zoom. Everything is on Zoom now.

Vanessa Peck (23:16): It's true. It's true. It really is. I'm surprised I'm not Zooming for my groceries with people at this point.

Kannaboom (23:22): Right. The word anxiety has come up a couple of times and kids are like barometers, right? They soak up all this stuff. And right now we're in the most anxious time of our lifetimes, I think. So there's definitely a need for something that can address that.

Vanessa Peck (23:38): Yeah. A hundred percent and even before COVID and everything that's going on. I can tell you working in the pediatric ER, the anxiety and depression amongst pediatric patients was extremely prevalent and studies have shown that there's just been an increase over the years. So COVID is only exacerbating and that much more. So it's, it's definitely an issue.

Kannaboom (24:01): Pediatrics, that covers infants to teens.

Vanessa Peck (24:05): Yup. Infants to teens 18. Yeah.

Kannaboom (24:07): Do you do anything with people once they, once they're 19 or 20, or?

Vanessa Peck (24:11): I definitely could. I haven't had any inquiries for anybody that age right now, but I definitely would. I mean, even in the pediatric ER, we saw people up to the age of 21. But if somebody even approached me not even on a pediatric basis, you know, I would, I definitely either would point them in the right direction to somebody who may be specializing in their condition, whether it's fibromyalgia, Crohn's anything like that. I would, I definitely have contacts that can help. But my focus is definitely anybody from newborn to, I say, 21, for sure.

Kannaboom (24:44): You know, we talk about deficiencies and how you could have an endocannabinoid deficiency. Is there a school of thought that says this CBD oil could be like a vitamin that it could just help you stay in balance?

Vanessa Peck (24:55): Yeah. There's definitely studies out there that even, even those who may not be suffering from these type of issues that even just supplementing with CBD for anyone could actually be quite beneficial and just keeping our internal system in balance where everything is just working synergistically the way it should. I mean, there's people out there adult wise where maybe they're being treated for chronic pain in the case of lupus or a condition like ms and say they also have high blood pressure. And now we're finding that with continuous use of CBD or some sort of profiles, CBD with terpenes and other constituents. We're seeing that even our blood pressure is coming down and some of these people are completely coming off their blood pressure medication. So I think it's definitely beneficial for anyone out there who just is looking for an overall improvement in their health and wellness.

Kannaboom (25:54): Yeah. At any age, I guess we touched on this earlier, but are there vocal opponents out there kind of reefer madness, people who say we don't want kids being high and this is the worst thing in the world.

Vanessa Peck (26:06): Definitely. I will say when I was doing research for my course, I'm just touching base with some parents that were part of the support autism groups. I can tell you the minute you use the word CBD and not even the word cannabis, but if you use the word CBD people right away were freaking out and telling you, "We do not talk about that in here." And I would get kicked out of the group. Yeah. So there are definitely very strong opinions about it. I don't know if that revolves around the fact that they think this is like, you know snake-oil type stuff and too good to be true. 'Stop Selling me your stuff,' type thing versus just a lack of education. I'm not really sure, but there definitely are some very strong opposition out there for sure.

Kannaboom (26:54): Yeah. We still have our work cut out for us. I mean, I get that people have to be very vigilant about their kids' health. And if you were brought up thinking this is a drug that could lead you to hard drugs and it puts you on the couch as a stoner for the rest of your life, you would be adamantly opposed to that. But you know, there's a whole different side to it now that we know about. So I applaud what you're doing with your course and everything else. Glad we can help you get the word out.

Vanessa Peck (27:21): Right. Thank you. I really appreciate it. And even around the whole reefer madness idea, you know, I think when people think of children and it affecting them cognitively, and they're going to be a stoner and high, I think a lot of that is, is based around the recreational idea of it. And nobody's taking it from the medical perspective where, you know, we're not talking about kids rolling a joint smoking frequently throughout the week. We don't know where the strains are coming from or what's in that particular batch that they have. But rather we're approaching this from a medical perspective where we're starting low going slow. We know the profile that's occurring and we're using the most minimal dose possible to reach the therapeutic effect. And we're talking about medicinal grade cannabis. We're not talking about something that's coming off the streets and impairing, you know, children who are using it, recreational and going crazy with it.

Kannaboom (28:19): Yeah. And if you can stop a young child from seizuring or suffering who could be against that?

Vanessa Peck (28:24): Exactly. Exactly. And that's, what's happening with these parents. These poor parents have done everything they're constantly in and out of doctor's offices as they're constantly trying their child on new medications. And then that medication has a side effect and it's another medication. You know, some parents talk about how their children have been on 50 medications over a course of a few months. That's crazy. You know? And then finally when they learn that there's an alternative, that could be pretty promising. I think there are a lot of parents out there they're like, well, why wouldn't I try it? What do I have to lose at this point? And to have something that you can't overdose on that it's very effective. You really have nothing to lose. It. Doesn't have the side effects that all these other medications do. I mean, why wouldn't you at least try it?

Kannaboom (29:10): You know, I just recently did an episode with the director of CBD Nation, which is a great documentary, recommended to everybody. And he did a segment on Riley in Delaware who went to the Delaware state legislature and helped pass Riley's law. And of course, a lot of people know about Charlotte Figi in Colorado who was suffering from Dravet syndrome and finally got Hippies Disappointment, a high-CBD strain that helped her even out the Dravet syndrome. So there's so many stories like that, that you're helping to facilitate too. Again, who could be against that. I mean, it's a medicine whose time has come. If we can help, help these kids live a better quality of life.

Vanessa Peck (29:49): Exactly. And that's what it's all about. It's just improving the quality of life for the child and the family at the end of the day. That's what it's all about.

Kannaboom (29:57): Vanessa, is there anything we haven't covered yet that we should?

Vanessa Peck (30:01): No, I think we covered a lot of stuff here. I mean, I could sit here forever and talk about cannabis and helping people, but we'd be here forever, but this was a great conversation.

Kannaboom (30:12): Great. Well, I'm glad you could make it. Where can we find you online when you do have your course up? I want to let people know. Yeah.

Vanessa Peck (30:17): I would love that. You can find me at Elevated dash Healing.com. That's my website. I'm also on Facebook. I have a business page there, which is Elevated dash Healing as well. And then on Instagram elevated, unfortunately it's Elevated three underscores Healing. Unfortunately it's a popular name. So I had to get creative with how I created things, but yeah, you can find me in any of those spots there.

Kannaboom (30:44): Okay. We will look for you and we'll see you online and good luck when the course comes out in November. We'll definitely let people know on Twitter and elsewhere.

Vanessa Peck (30:51): Great. Awesome. Thank you so much.

Kannaboom (30:54): You've been listening to the Kannaboom podcast with host Tom Stacey, if you like the show and want to know more, please check us out at Kannaboom with a K. Com and please leave us a review on Apple podcasts or wherever you listen, see you next week.